Experiencing autumn is liberal arts. It begins with a landscape painting in brilliant colors to delight our eyes, progresses as a string quartet in a minor key to stir our moods, and ends in profound poetic verses to deepen our awareness. Its motif, inherently universal and rich, is so meaningful to us.
It means beautiful. Nature displays arrays of striking scenic foliage in dashing red, blazing orange and radiant gold. We are surrounded with bold colors. From mystery morning mist, clear October sky, splendor of the sunset, purple twilight to rising harvest moon, hunter moon…, the season is full of spectacular phenomenon. Nature is really at its finest in our visual sense of beauty.
It means bountiful. We’re rewarded with the abundance of fruits, vegetables and crops in the season. We harvest them, store them and preserve them.
It means festive. Some best holidays, festivals, family reunions and rituals traditionally are celebrated in autumn across all cultures. People come together to greet, to share foods and to give thanks among each other. From fairgrounds to town squares, from villages to metropolises, the fall fairs can be found everywhere throughout the season.
Autumn is called “the season of change”. The wonder from its changes inspires us to ponder, the ambiance of its changes turns us inward to contemplate. It is a very profound season. There is a special phrase 秋思 (autumn thoughts) in Chinese and Japanese languages to express deep reflections in the season. In our minds, autumn connotes life philosophy.
“The season of change” could stir our emotion besides our mind. Watching fallen leaves reminds us those passing moments of life: Our past journey, old friendship, our hometown, childhood innocence…, they are part of ourselves. Our memory magically works at its best in autumn to bring back those treasured moments. Autumn always means nostalgic.
For some tenderly sentimental souls, the emotional meaning of autumn could go further. The melancholy days have come, the saddest of year…. It is true for some of us that autumn could be elegiac. Our emotion wants to stay with the season’s beauty and prosperity, but our knowledge knows where we head and the final fate of the change. Such a Greek tragedy-like ending of nature’s vivacity is just too much for some of us to take. Living with this paradox makes our moods swinging in autumn. But it is not our negative attitude toward this beautiful season. It is just a stronger emotional reaction toward same nostalgic theme: a good thing being lost is a good thing being valued, being missed.
Autumn also means beginning, A beginning of a new school year for kids, a new season for football, for deer hunting, for fishing. To our earth, autumn means a beginning of a new cycle to face out into space so that we can greet our neighbor Andromeda Galaxy (without telescope) in clear nights. When God created Adam and Eva, fruits were fully ripe in the Garden of Eden. So, it must be in autumn when we human are created. History begins from autumn. That’s why the Jewish celebrate New Year at the beginning of the fall. It was also in autumn when apples fell from a tree near Newton, he discovered physics of gravity. If that story is true, we can arguably claim science is born in autumn.
The meaning of autumn and our reverent feeling toward the season are both beyond compare. Unlike other seasons whose characters are clear--winter is tough, spring is fresh and sweet, and summer is fun, “the season of change”, because of its immensity, its profundity and its paradoxical nature, is rather hard to characterize. The longer and deeper walking into the season, the more poetic we feel about it at the end. Everyone living through this season could be a poet. Every scene, every moment and every touch of the season could be well versed in our own languages for which we may write down ardently, we may read loudly, or we may simply feel inside silently. This autumn, I wrote it, I read it, and I felt it.
- posted on 11/30/2010
Rubaiyat of Autumn (秋天的鲁拜) *
Inspired as you arrive anew,
the mountain changes its tone and hue.
Bright golden glow, vibrant red flair,
you render such a vivid view.
Refreshed and braced in your crisp air,
the valley savors apple and pear.
With sparkling dew, mellowed in light,
you boast parades of fruitful fair.
As twilight fades into blue night,
the moon graces seashore silver bright.
Waves over waves spark minds to sail,
you bring a long nostalgic night.
The falling leaves hide hiking trails,
swept fields are dotted with hay bales.
Woods echo hunters’ season quest,
you whisper real adventure tales.
When grass is frosted and meadow dressed,
the robin leaves behind its nest.
A hymn to Fall that I see through,
you glory nature’s soul to rest
* I love Rubaiyat for its rhyme scheme/form and iambic meter for its rhythm, and like to give them a try with interlocking style. But I am not sure if I made it a pure tetrameter or not. Critics are welcome. I know, some people in café were interested in Rubaiyat poems too, such as Cao ye’s post about Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam and Mr. 81’s translation of Rumi which in its original language I think is in Rubaiyat form. Thank xw for his kind support and his comments on last stanza which is very helpful.
- Re: Autumn Homage--An essay, a poem and a photo album for the seasonposted on 11/30/2010
Photos were taken in my local area.
- Re: Autumn Homage--An essay, a poem and a photo album for the seasonposted on 11/30/2010
st dude这照片不得了,你们家附近怎么都是三原色的啊,和你一样绝对 :) - posted on 11/30/2010
”iambic meter for its rhythm“。。。我的印象里iambic 都是10个syllables, 可是这个第一行就违反了。不过加一个syllable很容易。
这首很sensational, 很温和。读起来感觉不错。谢分享。
鲁拜到底是个什么东东?地方,人,还是一个诗的style?
st dude wrote:
Rubaiyat of Autumn (秋天的鲁拜) *
Inspired as you arrive anew,
the mountain changes its tone and hue.
Bright golden glow, vibrant red flair,
you render such a vivid view.
Refreshed and braced in your crisp air,
the valley savors apple and pear.
With sparkling dew, mellowed in light,
you boast parades of fruitful fair.
As twilight fades into blue night,
the moon graces seashore silver bright.
Waves over waves spark minds to sail,
you bring a long nostalgic night.
The falling leaves hide hiking trails,
swept fields are dotted with hay bales.
Woods echo hunters’ season quest,
you whisper real adventure tales.
When grass is frosted and meadow dressed,
the robin leaves behind its nest.
A hymn to Fall that I see through,
you glory nature’s soul to rest
* I love Rubaiyat for its rhyme scheme/form and iambic meter for its rhythm, and like to give them a try with interlocking style. But I am not sure if I made it a pure tetrameter or not. Critics are welcome. I know, some people in café were interested in Rubaiyat poems too, such as Cao ye’s post about Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam and Mr. 81’s translation of Rumi which in its original language I think is in Rubaiyat form. Thank xw for his kind support and his comments on last stanza which is very helpful.
- posted on 11/30/2010
浮生说的有意思,圣都够绝对。比如说感恩节,不就是十一月底,在南加州可能才
入秋,在东北美满山树叶已落尽。这里早晨严霜,冰雪籽都下过几回了。。。
这篇秋思,还有秋天的鲁拜均不错。秋天的鲁拜我尤其想评一评,这诗花了圣都不
少心思,尤其让我想起苦吟的秋菱。词句的酝酿,工整的诗句节奏与诗韵,所化的
心思可见不一般,还是与秋菱一般?
喜的是,圣都多日不见了,出落成了一个英语诗人:
Refreshed and braced in your crisp air,
the valley savors apple and pear.
With sparkling dew, mellowed in light,
you boast parades of fruitful fair.
喜欢这crisp air,我是在中国南方的潮地长大的,杜甫说江南瘴厉地,却喜欢北方
的干。只是这秋天,crisp不仅给我干的新鲜,也给我皮肤干裂,易上火的感觉。秋
天干燥,得多喝一些水。
浮生 wrote:
st dude这照片不得了,你们家附近怎么都是三原色的啊,和你一样绝对 :)
Red Maple, Gingko, Blue Sky...
- posted on 11/30/2010
都德玩的很高深哈,以前我提及自己曾钻研过两小时的英诗 meter,如同雾里看花。
除了韵脚,感觉你花了不少功夫遣词,结构工整,极其上口,祝贺一哈!
st dude wrote:
Rubaiyat of Autumn (秋天的鲁拜) *
Inspired as you arrive anew,
the mountain changes its tone and hue.
Bright golden glow, vibrant red flair,
you render such a vivid view.
Refreshed and braced in your crisp air,
the valley savors apple and pear.
With sparkling dew, mellowed in light,
you boast parades of fruitful fair.
As twilight fades into blue night,
the moon graces seashore silver bright.
Waves over waves spark minds to sail,
you bring a long nostalgic night.
The falling leaves hide hiking trails,
swept fields are dotted with hay bales.
Woods echo hunters’ season quest,
you whisper real adventure tales.
When grass is frosted and meadow dressed,
the robin leaves behind its nest.
A hymn to Fall that I see through,
you glory nature’s soul to rest
* I love Rubaiyat for its rhyme scheme/form and iambic meter for its rhythm, and like to give them a try with interlocking style. But I am not sure if I made it a pure tetrameter or not. Critics are welcome. I know, some people in café were interested in Rubaiyat poems too, such as Cao ye’s post about Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam and Mr. 81’s translation of Rumi which in its original language I think is in Rubaiyat form. Thank xw for his kind support and his comments on last stanza which is very helpful.
- posted on 12/01/2010
pengyou wrote:
”iambic meter for its rhythm“。。。我的印象里iambic 都是10个syllables, 可是这个第一行就违反了。不过加一个syllable很容易。
第一行的inspired要念成两个syllable. 最后的元音e省去. 按照古人的写法, 加个省略号’作为提示, 写成inspir’d. 你看19世纪(还有更早期)的济慈,雪莱他们的诗都是这么写的. 现代标准的写法就不用加省略号了, 在朗读的时候省略掉. Emily Dickinson, Robert Frost 他们的诗就是这样. 所以, 我的第一行是8个音节.
抑扬格(Iambic)不一定是10个syllables. 英语的抑扬格律诗的基本单位是音步(foot). 这是和以音节为基本单元的法语诗,甚至包括英语的haiku诗不一样的地方. 在那些诗里音节是最基本的单元, 每一行count 音节. 而抑扬诗要看音步.有5个音步的抑扬诗, 还有4,3,2个音步的抑扬诗. 只是每个音步又由一个轻音和一个重音两个音节组成. 所以, 对5音步的抑扬诗来说, 5x2 = 10. 我想你说的10个音节的意思是指5音步的抑扬诗(比如,十四行诗就是采用5音步). 但是, 这里的概念是, 不是只要有10个音节就一定是抑扬诗.你要看能不能写出5个音步来. 每个音步含有轻重二音. 这样才能产生上下起伏的律动, 也就是节奏感, 一个音步一拍. 比如4音步
轻重|轻重|轻重|轻重|
或者,用音乐的术语说
offbeat upbeat| offbeat upbeat|offbeat upbeat| offbeat upbeat|
英语因为是重音语言, 可以天然地产生大量的这样的弱拍强拍, 弱拍强拍…节奏感的诗句. 我只发现英语诗这一唯一优势. 当然读的太少, 还需要多读.
当然, 节奏感有很多. 不一定非要抑扬, 扬抑也可以(强弱,强弱), 等等等, 有很多节奏pattern. 但是, 这种最简单的强弱型节拍嘀嗒,嘀嗒pattern, 是我们人类最基本的节奏感. 即使是节奏感丰富的黑人, 强弱型节拍也是他们最基本的节奏感. 这应该和我们生理本能有关了,比如呼吸的那种一呼一吸的节奏. 符合这种节奏自然让我们感到舒服.
如果是抒情诗的话, 我个人更偏爱4音步的抑扬诗. 这肯定是受听流行音乐流行歌曲的影响. 4音步的抑扬诗和4/4拍的抒情歌曲对应的. 当然,这也和诗的长短有关系, 4音步,3音步, 2音步混合起来使用, 效果也很好, 可以避免使用同一音步节奏过于单一而产生boring古板的效果. Emily 好像这方面很擅长, 她的一些短诗很多都是这样写的. Bob Dylan 有一个歌曲专辑(忘了名字, 好像是他晚期的, xw 和maya是Dylan专家, 他们可能更清楚), 基本上所有的歌词都是用纯正的抑扬格写出来的. 老瓦说他不感兴趣理论, 但他的一些诗音乐性很强. 我记得café从前好像有人说过, 他是写歌词出身. 无意8挂老瓦. 我想这经历可能和他的诗有关. 就像黑人张嘴就能rap, 因为他们从小已经受rap的那些节奏的要素熏陶, 有了sense.
另外, 我觉得这种节奏感也是中文诗节奏的精髓. 像最早的诗经的那些四言诗都是4/4拍(我想, 也可以读成2/4拍).
蒹葭苍苍, 白露为霜.
所谓伊人, 在水一方.
四言诗能最早成为诗歌的正体, 占有正统的地位, 虽然可能有其它历史因素. 但是, 诗经来自民歌民谣. 那么多民谣里, 偏偏选中四言诗作为诗的规范, 肯定和音乐性有关, 和四言的这种声律分不开的. 所谓“雅音之韵,四言为正”.
就是后来的正统诗,七言诗其实也是4/4拍. 所谓七言四顿. 我上中学时,语文老师总是骂我们, 好好的一首七律怎么让你们念成了快板书, 要两字一顿, 两字一顿. 当时也就跟着他模仿, 也没有想什么顿不顿的, 拍不拍的. 其实道理就是
留取丹心照汗青, 应该读成, 留取丹心照(耀)汗青的4/4节拍. 照和不读出来的"耀"两字一顿构成一拍.
不尽长江滚滚流,应该读成, 不尽长江滚滚流(动). 流后面那个不读出来的"动“不能省, 相当于音乐的1/8拍休止符, 算节奏的一部分.
这首很sensational, 很温和。读起来感觉不错。谢分享。
鲁拜到底是个什么东东?地方,人,还是一个诗的style?
"sensational", 会不会是感到有些Cliché. 如果有, 我下次一定要注意.
鲁拜就是四行诗的意思. 押aaba的韵. 我效仿Frost的Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening那首, 用了连环韵. 波斯的鲁拜诗据说是从唐朝(唐诗七绝)传过去的. 难怪我有亲切感. 后来Edward FitzGerald 把Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, 翻译(意译)成英文, 实际上本土化了鲁拜诗. 原波斯的鲁拜有点李白, 英语的鲁拜则非常维多利亚化了. 郭末若翻译的几段FitzGerald的英语鲁拜诗, 我觉得非常优秀. 我个人很喜欢. 所以,事情好像是这样, 唐朝的七绝—>波斯语的鲁拜--〉维多利亚的英语鲁拜--〉Frost的鲁拜--〉Chinglish老圣的鲁拜. 转了一圈又转回来了. 文化围绕着地球传播. 可以参看草叶的那个帖子.
- posted on 12/01/2010
浮生 wrote:
st dude这照片不得了,你们家附近怎么都是三原色的啊,和你一样绝对 :)
只有三色, 我是够单调的. 先努力给自己增加一色,黑色.
家附近其实比我单调, 主要就一色, 绿色. 我们这边的其它颜色的树都长不过绿树. 所以只能取近景, 还能有些秋色的意思. 只要一远望, 那点秋色都消失在绿色之中了.
xw wrote:
老瓦wrote:
谢二位诗长的鼓励. 我知道让二位张嘴批评很难.但,还是希望看到批评, 写诗我是一点ego都没有. 不是不想有. 只是初学写诗, 根本没有ego的原始资本积累. 二位尽量下手. - Re: Autumn Homage--An essay, a poem and a photo album for the seasonposted on 12/01/2010
谢读德。
读起那些关于韵律的东东我总是脑袋大。不过这次还好,又记了一些。
都看了,有的地方多遍,下次写诗,我就实验一遍。
强弱很不好掌握。音乐里有切分音节 (syncopation),诗里有没有? ;-)
再谢。 - posted on 12/01/2010
再赞都德的钻研精神,你让我们自叹弗如。
从前写歌词?那是讹传,追星才是真:)不过凭我的零星感悟,传统中文歌词中的音乐性,完全来自格律和韵律。格律就是你所列的各种格啊式啊,讲对仗讲工整,也可能跟宋词那些曲牌有些渊源,这个我一点都不会。而韵律,就是押尾字的韵,这个大家都会。
但你若看看当下的中文歌词,之所以惨不忍睹,就是大家只会押韵,拼老命也要押韵,反而视语言内在的神韵不顾。听说牛津有位教授写了本大作,企图推翻脑神经界长期以来的定论,亦即要否认所谓“相对独立的大脑区域,各自处理语言和音乐信号”,我正在找这本书,若读了就来分享。
我的感觉是,语言和音乐的进化,类似于猩猩与人类,大概都源自同一堆基因,但发育成不同的模样,在大脑的处理机制中应该有很多overlap。我之所以不感冒格律的原因就在于,语言不就是大家耳熟能详的么?若自己耳朵能听得爽爽朗朗,为何非要去讲究他人制定的刻板格律?
- posted on 12/01/2010
我倒跟老瓦相反,诗的节奏与韵,或多或少是诗歌残留不多的技艺,就是海子上好
的诗也是朗然的节奏与韵。这表现在北大多次的诗歌会上,,,人们对海子的诗朗
朗成诵忆。
这里头当然有东西,歌德说带镣铐跳舞。朱光潜考据多家语言,认为汉语与法语诗
以押韵为上。拉丁语,古希腊都不押韵,但有朗然的节奏,这里老圣提到了。日耳
曼语系要自由一些。我觉得新学写英文诗如果能在音步音韵上花些功夫,肯定比水
银泻地好。至少能提高外语的诗感,如能深解一些好诗更是收获。老圣在此处用功
,还是值得鼓励。
究之中国白话诗,说一句不好听的话。钱钟书的诗有人研究,陈寅恪甚至其父散原
的诗都有专家研究。白话诗也就是海子不多的有些研究,要认识这个差距。
- posted on 12/02/2010
老圣的诗、文、画"tryptych"很有创意:以不同的方式、三位一体地来描述秋天。
挑一个小小的“毛病”。在此加引号是因为从纯粹的语法来说它或许不是“毛病”,但在某些情况下它可能成为“毛病"。比如我读到那儿似乎就立马被“卡“住了。这个“毛病”表现在“universal and rich"的顺序上。
英语中有所谓 "salt and pepper" rule。即在几个词并列的情况下,通常短的(比如短音节词)在前,长的(比如长音节词)在后。所以把3个音节的"universal"放在单音节的“rich"前读起来很不顺口。”更好的“似乎应该是"rich and universal" (除非因逻辑或其它原因非得倒过来)。类似的”毛病“还可见于"fruits, vegetables and crops" (可重排为 crops, fruits and vegetables)和 "for football, for deer hunting, for fishing" (可重排为for fishing, football and deer hunting--当然如果三词在此均用动名词---比如 fishing, hiking and hunting 就更好了--别怪俺牺牲了球类)中。
- posted on 12/02/2010
圣都以文 ,诗,图片并茂来颂秋,似一曲交响乐。这一排排红枫,红的有点痛,一种陶醉的痛。
好的文字像音乐,使人愉悦,思路飞扬,一种享受。谢谢圣都周正的风格。
借圣都的线。报告一下,现在,我在国内上海能打开玛雅咖啡的新版面,但没有最后跟贴的时间,如老版面那样。再则,国内不能用youtube, 我很想贴一段音乐配你的文章,一段蓝调,很可惜,就写几个字吧,是不是诗,圣都多包涵。
##########
梧桐树下
这个秋晚
徘徊在梧桐树下
如此优雅
梳不尽的孤单
不是出身在高贵的法兰西?
谁执着 树在街头和
路灯影下
秋去冬来 春暖夏凉
一个好听的名字---法国梧桐
远嫁他乡
谁在意 为主人
人和树都一样
梧桐树下 意蕴黯然
高楼的影子 新邻旧居
没了阳光
更不见当年树下温柔的姑娘
亨德尔的旋律 迴荡
在梧桐树下
咖啡馆混浊的灯光
燃烧着欲望 欲望
我依偎着梧桐树
思绪却在远方
同一个地球 同一个太阳
何以东方西方 别人的国家
- RE: Autumn Homage--An essay, a poem and a photo album for the seasonposted on 12/02/2010
del - RE: Autumn Homage--An essay, a poem and a photo album for the seasonposted on 12/02/2010
del - posted on 12/02/2010
秋子 wrote:
圣都以文 ,诗,图片并茂来颂秋,似一曲交响乐。这一排排红枫,红的有点痛,一种陶醉的痛。
好的文字像音乐,使人愉悦,思路飞扬,一种享受。谢谢圣都周正的风格。
借圣都的线。报告一下,现在,我在国内上海能打开玛雅咖啡的新版面,但没有最后跟贴的时间,如老版面那样。再则,国内不能用youtube, 我很想贴一段音乐配你的文章,一段蓝调,很可惜,就写几个字吧,是不是诗,圣都多包涵。
秋子,很多youtube的东西,youku(优酷网)上都有,而且,一般海内外都能看到。 - posted on 12/03/2010
pengyou wrote:
读起那些关于韵律的东东我总是脑袋大。不过这次还好,又记了一些。
都看了,有的地方多遍,下次写诗,我就实验一遍。
强弱很不好掌握。音乐里有切分音节 (syncopation),诗里有没有? ;-)
上贴写误了一处. 应该是省略号表示省略元音e,不是轻辅音d. 否则“inspired读成两个syllable“不make sense了. 纠正一下.
我的体会, 那些rule不难理解. 令人脑袋大主要是要把英文字的语音节奏和语义节奏先分开. 然后考虑音步的时候, 你既要把文字单词看成类似于乐谱(节奏谱), 又要考虑用词的语义. 大脑有些不习惯.
切分音的情况好像在黑人的rap里有. 当然,大部分rap不应该算诗. 而且我只是感觉了, 听不大懂, 也听得很少. 也不知道感觉到的切分的效果是来自说话的语音还是伴奏.
风子 wrote:
挑一个小小的“毛病”。在此加引号是因为从纯粹的语法来说它或许不是“毛病”,但在某些情况下它可能成为“毛病"。
是毛病. 多谢风子指出. 我意识里并不知道convention. 但是,经你一说. 潜意识的语感马上让我知道你说的对.
秋子 wrote:
圣都以文 ,诗,图片并茂来颂秋,似一曲交响乐
谢秋子. 梧桐应该算印象较深的上海秋色. rzp 去年有一首很有特色的秋色老梧桐. 不过,不知道她指的梧桐是哪里的.
秋色老梧桐
http://www.mayacafe.com/forum/topic1sp.php3?tkey=1257461568
- posted on 12/03/2010
老瓦 wrote:
不过凭我的零星感悟,传统中文歌词中的音乐性,完全来自格律和韵律。格律就是你所列的各种格啊式啊,讲对仗讲工整,也可能跟宋词那些曲牌有些渊源,这个我一点都不会。而韵律,就是押尾字的韵,这个大家都会。
我觉得诗的格律和宋词不一样. 宋词是文字服务音乐(外在的乐音和节奏), 是填词. 应该和现在的歌曲的歌词对应的, 宋词是歌词. 诗的格律是利用文字内在的音乐性写出来的. 当然, 文字内在的音乐性和非文字的外在音乐归根结底可能都是来自人原始的乐感. 这是更深一层的语言问题. 我们现在就按语言和音乐分家以后说. 分家以后,文字仍然带有音乐要素, 节奏和音响. 诗就是有节奏的文字(但,不是有节奏的问题都是诗). 我挺认同这样定义诗的.但这肯定是部分人的观点.
问题在于我们感受文字节奏的感觉有很多. 节奏感的pattern决不限于抑扬格, 扬抑格, 四言五言七言这些古人找到的. 都说惠特曼搞革命, 开创自由体诗歌, 不要格律了. 可他挺爱用重复, 排比,内容/意义的对比..等这些技巧制造节奏感. 重复, 排比和类比确实可以有强烈的节奏感. 但用得太多了, 也会让人感也就是三板斧这几下子. 如果到俗了的地步, 还不如回到古典节奏. 还是需要发明新的技巧来制造节奏感.
我觉得中文现代诗(新诗) 的问题是, 白话文以后的现代(西化)汉语和古代汉语差不多就是两种语言了.古汉语为基础的旧诗形式(格律,音韵等)是确立的 ,可谓古代文化的精华. 分家以后, 以现代汉语为基础的新诗这100年来在形式这方面有些乱. 韵律节奏感好的诗是有一些, 尽管我读诗很少, 知道的有限. 比如xw说海子是一个. 稍早的舒婷等. 更早的徐志摩, 闻一多的新月派. 但是, 好像一些规范性的东西没有建立起来, 反正我是根本摸不着头脑.
但你若看看当下的中文歌词,之所以惨不忍睹,就是大家只会押韵,拼老命也要押韵,反而视语言内在的神韵不顾。听说牛津有位教授写了本大作,企图推翻脑神经界长期以来的定论,亦即要否认所谓“相对独立的大脑区域,各自处理语言和音乐信号”,我正在找这本书,若读了就来分享。
当下的中文歌词我还不大了解,需要另说. 对于诗来说,节奏是根本. 押韵是强化节奏的. 我知道,xw持这个观点. 我觉得, 事情的原本是, 有好的节奏,是不需要的押韵的. 你建立起来了绷擦, 绷擦, 绷擦, 绷擦….某(几)种节奏了, 就行了. 当然, 有合适的很自然的韵, 押上更好, 强化效果. 但是, 如果没有建立起某种节奏感, 我觉得那只能靠韵, 比如, 在一些句尾,行尾或者节尾”绷”一下, 增加一点节奏感. 否则,只靠换行的那个无声的”顿”, 我个人感觉,节奏感太弱, 和普通文章的逗号,句号起到的节奏感的程度差不多(也许还有些视觉上节奏感效应). 但,似乎很多人都能接受这种节奏程度.
我的感觉是,语言和音乐的进化,类似于猩猩与人类,大概都源自同一堆基因,但发育成不同的模样,在大脑的处理机制中应该有很多overlap。我之所以不感冒格律的原因就在于,语言不就是大家耳熟能详的么?若自己耳朵能听得爽爽朗朗,为何非要去讲究他人制定的刻板格律?
你这观点就和20世纪上半期那些现代音乐家对待音乐的想法一样. 比如, 他们相信调性音乐是习惯, 不是生理本能. 所以,开始了一场实验. 其实, 如果我们不以听众多少来论成败的话, 结果至今并没有定论, 因为大众的事情还有其它因素起作用. 在诗的节奏感这方面, 你这个意思肯定是对的, 古人的节奏感不完全代表我们现代人的节奏感, 现代节奏感. 除了他们发明的那些格律外, 可以肯定还有很多的方式可以发掘来制造诗歌的节奏感. 但现代人存在这么一个倾向, 就是忘了诗歌的节奏, 结果, 诗歌从朗读, ”抽象”为默读. 默读的后果就有可能退化到不读了. - posted on 12/03/2010
都德,这个坛子上,xw是百科全书,你就是万金油,万事万物扯来都是无穷多的道道,让人眼花缭乱。
你区分的语音节奏、语义节奏,正说到点子上了。我前面拿宋词来举例,是想说歌词的韵律,不想又绕到诗的韵律上去,属于声东击西,不得要领。有位大学英诗教授,忘了他的大名了,对流行乐的歌词非常不屑,说lyrics is nothing without music。我想关键的区分在于,千百年来诗歌与歌曲的使命已经分道扬镳,后者重于传播,要市场最大化,所以一定要浅显,一定要朗朗上口;而前者重于内省,着眼市场高端,曲高和寡也无所谓,自己酸自己。
还是刹不住,又扯远了。xw对韵律推崇,是在讲究”功力”,这个需要长时间积累,而且大家有一个bench mark,有一个公有平台来论道。我想这也是科班和大家们的势力圈。惠特曼早年缀学,没那么厚的私底,搞诗歌革命就再自然不过。初读时,他的某些长句异常有力,但如你所言,玩久了就是三板斧,我也落井下石一回,到最后就有点裹脚布:) - posted on 12/03/2010
唉,老瓦,各人有各人的讲话方式。我也是讲话喜欢乱跳,哪里敢当百科全书,你
看多少贴子,比如最近小麦的八卦贴,除友情一下,我插话的份都没有。莫把我当
耙子!
老圣讲话不紧不缓的,蛮有意思。我讲话乱冲一气,错字连篇,都是一时兴致而已。
咖啡讨论诗,总是好现象。各人观点不一样,最好了。我个人的感觉,要真解诗还
得涂一点鸦好,涂过就知道别人的好,好在哪里。我想,作文也一样,解文章的妙
处,自己也得下一番功夫。画过画的人肯定更知道画中的妙处,于写字都有帮助。
音乐何尝不一样?诗歌的内在韵律,可与音乐参照。
当然不一定是流行歌曲。流行摇滚也有好诗词,虽然尾韵会重了些。我觉的列侬作
的歌词都很好,这一首看看,你熟悉的:
Words are flying out like
endless rain into a paper cup
They slither while they pass
They slip away across the universe
Pools of sorrow waves of joy
are drifting thorough my open mind
Possessing and caressing me
Jai guru deva om
Nothing's gonna change my world ...
Images of broken light which
dance before me like a million eyes
That call me on and on across the universe
Thoughts meander like a
restless wind inside a letter box
they tumble blindly as
they make their way across the universe
Jai guru deva om, Nothing's gonna change my world ...
(refrain)
Sounds of laughter shades of life
are ringing through my open ears
exciting and inviting me
Limitless undying love which
shines around me like a million suns
It calls me on and on across the universe
Jai guru deva om, Nothing's gonna change my world ...
... ...
Jai guru deva, om...
- posted on 05/29/2011
dude,
诗里面没有韵律行不行?我并不希望诗歌读起来像唱歌一样。因为如是那样,诗歌就失去了一些很凝重的东东。
切分音节 (syncopation)就一个停顿,把排子延异到下一个音符上,是谓“听不见的切分音“。现代音乐里面就有很多这样表达,使你总有个感觉,某个节拍该到了,可就是不来,让你来是提着心等待。
切分音节在诗里是不是破坏了iambic?
st dude wrote:
pengyou wrote:上贴写误了一处. 应该是省略号表示省略元音e,不是轻辅音d. 否则“inspired读成两个syllable“不make sense了. 纠正一下.
读起那些关于韵律的东东我总是脑袋大。不过这次还好,又记了一些。
都看了,有的地方多遍,下次写诗,我就实验一遍。
强弱很不好掌握。音乐里有切分音节 (syncopation),诗里有没有? ;-)
我的体会, 那些rule不难理解. 令人脑袋大主要是要把英文字的语音节奏和语义节奏先分开. 然后考虑音步的时候, 你既要把文字单词看成类似于乐谱(节奏谱), 又要考虑用词的语义. 大脑有些不习惯.
切分音的情况好像在黑人的rap里有. 当然,大部分rap不应该算诗. 而且我只是感觉了, 听不大懂, 也听得很少. 也不知道感觉到的切分的效果是来自说话的语音还是伴奏.
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