Enter google.cn and you are redirected to www.google.com.hk. The latter is not censored.
The decision makers at Google did the right thing. They slapped the faces of the dictators in China. They are principled. They deserve my respect.
The dictators in China will block www.google.com.hk. And many more Chinese people will resent their dictators more. That's another (indirect) slap on the faces of the dictators.
- Re: Google Stops Censoring in Chinaposted on 03/22/2010
The apparent escaping from the economic crisis that started from the U.S. has emboldened many Chinese including those in the ruling class and those in the ruled class. Some emboldened ones have been challenging the "western values" including political liberty and economic liberty.
They have not seen anything yet. When an economics crisis hits the Chinese, it will be a hurricane beyond description. The Chinese economy has embarked on a Keynesian runaway train and will end with a wreck. - posted on 03/23/2010
I reserve certain comment because 1) I know too little; 2) I am not daring enough; 3) I don't know how to protect myself; 4) I am a fish that wants to be a bird.
There is one thing I would like to address, I feel google is playing a trick. Sorry, it's my independent mind and nobody taught me to say so (if they did, I would say otherwise...).
I remember one NYTIMES article says Sina.com.cn and a couple other major Chinese websites are currently embedding google search engine. The search boxes in the center part of those sites.
So, google's censorship policy change, to me, is just a political show. It has no substance. If there is any, very likely it is money.
I don't believe in any of those rhetorics by any country or organization. Only one thing that will make things work: well-structured legislation.
Law teaches devils to restrain or behave. No good law, freedom is a sham. No good law, bad human natures will run wild, no good law, MONEY RULES, anywhere, and everywhere. - posted on 03/23/2010
The most "civilized" money rule is through legislation, executive order and administrative courts. Direct money rule that does not involve the legislation etc. stuff is just propaganda, deceiving tricks, etc. Compared with the most "civilized" money rule, it is almost nothing.
Legislation to death. That is a hard fact of the western world.
Laws are not made by the legislators - the so-called "legislators". Laws are found by all the human beings. Law is not equal to legislation. For example, money rule through legislation is not part of the laws at all; but it is part of the legislation almost everywhere in the west.
- posted on 03/23/2010
Oh, I see.
shudai wrote:
The most "civilized" money rule is through legislation, executive order and administrative courts. Direct money rule that does not involve the legislation etc. stuff is just propaganda, deceiving tricks, etc. Compared with the most "civilized" money rule, it is almost nothing.
Legislation to death. That is a hard fact of the western world.
Laws are not made by the legislators - the so-called "legislators". Laws are found by all the human beings. Law is not equal to legislation. For example, money rule through legislation is not part of the laws at all; but it is part of the legislation almost everywhere in the west.
- Re: Google Stops Censoring in Chinaposted on 03/23/2010
.
- Re: Google Stops Censoring in Chinaposted on 03/23/2010
Google is basically forsaking all its current and potential profits from doing business in China. Google is leaving the China market unless it will recant what it just announced. Recantation is not very likely. Google can afford to leave the China market. There is no need to play in that muddy water. - posted on 03/23/2010
oh yeah? hmm...
So Sina and other sites are no longer using/subcontracting google's search engine like what they did in the past? (it was always censored to keep a green and clean planet with great hygiene standards, embedded with a hardcore google search box).
If those green, safe, well-behaved and healthy sites are still going to keep google engine as backstage search power box, and the censorship is the business of those "host sites" anyway. Then what will the difference be if www.google.cn censors or not.
The world is in the hand of power players. Whatever they say. Anyway.
Sorry I sounded cynical. I don't like foreign business giants in China. They go there spit and grab, if not rob, that's how I view it. The environment is damaged, the real estate market was hacked, what else, yeah, they got rich.
shudai wrote:
Google is basically forsaking all its current and potential profits from doing business in China. Google is leaving the China market unless it will recant what it just announced. Recantation is not very likely. Google can afford to leave the China market. There is no need to play in that muddy water. - posted on 03/23/2010
Google will forsake its business in China? no I don't think so. I can make a bet with you.
And, what we see or hear might not be what the things actually are. We were told, and we were influenced, and finally, we forget how to think on our own...
There are too many magicians and illusionists in the world. We naive and kind hearts can only follow, sometimes.
shudai wrote:
Google is basically forsaking all its current and potential profits from doing business in China. Google is leaving the China market unless it will recant what it just announced. Recantation is not very likely. Google can afford to leave the China market. There is no need to play in that muddy water. - Re: Google Stops Censoring in Chinaposted on 03/25/2010
In a recent interview regarding Google's decision to leave China, Sergey Brin said: "I think a lot of people think I’m naive, and that may well be true, but I wouldn’t have started a search engine in 1998 if I wasn’t naive". - Re: Google Stops Censoring in Chinaposted on 03/25/2010
There is no "economic man". There is only man. Man has valuations. The valuation is not only economic valuation.
A lot of persons don not understand the Google decision makers' decision on leaving the China market because they only think in economic terms when they think about this controversy.
As I said, I think Google's decision makers have decided to forsake all their profits in the China market.
Sergey Brin is a man. I salute him. - Re: Google Stops Censoring in Chinaposted on 03/25/2010
Just saw this after writing the previous post:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748704266504575141064259998090.html
Brin Drove Google’s Pullback - posted on 03/25/2010
Values...Of course.
I admire him too if it was a movie. In reality, well...history and the declassified finally will tell.
Do you remember the US congress had been considering taking certain legal measures to punish big internet search engines for their "compliance" and their "betrayals" of their own values by censoring content or surrendering names. Do you remember people's moral support can bring more business? Do you remember Google make money by doing advertisement? Don't you feel there is no better positive AD then acting like a super hero who regards value as the utmost and paramount thing?
No money, no power, no power, value protection perishes. To uphold value, have to have power, to have power, have to make money, to make money, have to compromise.
Unsatisfied deal and management inconvenience can drive a business to act "erratically". On the contrary, that erratic or maverick behaviour is quite logical and mathematically/economically correct in the long run. It's my view.
In this world, there are many great men and women. There ARE.
But, when people start to look upon them in a glorious way, the beholders voluntarily cast a veil to the truth. Do I admire Bill Gates, I do. Do I admire Pope, yes I do. Do I admire a man who has a mole on his chin, yes I do. They are all great people who know how to lie.
Great persons are not children. If you see great persons do "childish" things, you might mistakenly think them as children or adults being innocent. They are not. No, they are not naive. Not at all.
And, Google will not pull out China. The bet is still valid. How much will you put in? If you lose, you can still admire him, what is his name, give me second. Yeah, Sergey Brin. He is great. Now I take him a a role model, in a humanistic way instead.
Economy and values. They are inseparable. If you ever saw them detached from each other, well, I don't want to insult myself. I like ideals.
Shudai, I understand your points. I do. I merely want to tune down your passion a little bit. Many things in this world do not deserve our passion at all...Though I often do exactly the same things you were doing. Why do I argue? I feel it like a prostitute wanting to rescue another lady from being abused. You know, comparing with Sergey Brin, I admire you better. It's true.
shudai wrote:
There is no "economic man". There is only man. Man has valuations. The valuation is not only economic valuation.
A lot of persons don not understand the Google decision makers' decision on leaving the China market because they only think in economic terms when they think about this controversy.
As I said, I think Google's decision makers have decided to forsake all their profits in the China market.
Sergey Brin is a man. I salute him. - Re: Google Stops Censoring in Chinaposted on 03/26/2010
- Re: Google Stops Censoring in Chinaposted on 03/26/2010
Leaving the China market is a morally right decision for the Google decision makers. But going to the congress to call for governmental actions is a wrong decision. - posted on 03/26/2010
sorry I confused you.
Pushing the issue to the congress was the act of civilians. It was last year or the year before last year? I forgot.
Shudai, please...please don't use the word "moral" too much. It's a precious word. Using too much devalues its meaning. Actually, I used it a lot too. sorry.
I understand you points. I really really really do.
What I want to say is, no, I better shut up. I didn't get enough sleep last night. Should've gone to bed much much earlier.
right, how much will you put on the bet we made on if Google will forsake all its profit in China and pull out completely, or not.
My bet is: Nah, It will not.
You can buy me some CDs if you lose.
If you win, I will buy you some...let me calculate little bit :) The budget has been relatively tight recently... :(
shudai wrote:
Leaving the China market is a morally right decision for the Google decision makers. But going to the congress to call for governmental actions is a wrong decision.
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